#3 : Tommy Fleetwood

#3 : Tommy Fleetwood
The Edge
#3 : Tommy Fleetwood
Episode 3 April 28, 2021 00:42:23

Hosted By

TAG Heuer

Show Notes

This time on The Edge, a podcast by TAG Heuer, we hit the putting green with a bonafide and long-maned golf sensation, talking inspiration, family, hard work and what it’s like overall to walk a mile in a pair of golf shoes. Tommy Fleetwood, a four-time European Tour winner, takes us through the highs and lows, the pressures and payoffs of the professional sporting life. Your host is Teo van den Broeke, Style Director at GQ.  Watch out - this is The Edge.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 0 00:00:01 You know, I do think, and I still believe that if you master or you're very good at the mental side of golf, I think it transcends into everything else, almost more than any other sport because of that timeframe you're on your own. And you have too much time to think about things. You have to really like control how you talk to yourself, how you think being able to switch off, being able to stay present. And that's probably the biggest element mentally of golf that is different to so many other sports. Speaker 2 00:00:35 What gives us our edge and how do we go beyond it? How thin is the line between taking part and tipping into victory? What inspires those moments of rare advantage down to the millimeter, down to the microsecond that change the shape of a race? Is it faith, talent, focus, or sheer determination, a winners born or made, and what happens when things go wrong or when it all goes right. Welcome to the edge. We'll be talking to people operating at the very edge of possibility from athletes to actors and from artists to entrepreneurs. I'm your host te van and BRCA, and we'll be giving you the fuel. You need to get in the zone and leave your limits in the dust. Watch out. This is the edge, a podcast by tag. Tell me Fleetwood. Welcome to the edge with tag Hoya. Thank you very much for being here with us today. Um, where in the world are you right now? Speaker 0 00:01:41 Uh, I'm in Orlando right now in America. So I have, um, a week before my, before the first major of the year. Um, so it's, it's like, um, a practice week of prep week this week. And then, um, eventually, uh, I'll be flying back to the UK at some point. I've been away for a while now. Speaker 2 00:01:59 Oh, have you. Okay, so, so you missed the, uh, the reopening of the golf courses yesterday, which is obviously very exciting moment. Speaker 0 00:02:07 I've been one of those lucky ones that's been playing golf the whole time, just not, um, in the UK. So I'll, uh, I'll give everybody in the UK a day golf without me. Speaker 2 00:02:15 Okay. Okay. That's good to hear. Um, so I guess what we always ask people on our podcast is to kind of give us a little bit of a, a brief flow down on how they get got to where they are and how Tommy Fleetwood became Tommy Fleetwood. So tell us a little bit about, about you Tommy. Speaker 0 00:02:32 Um, okay. That's, uh, that's a good starting point. Um, so I'm 30 years old. Um, I guess the, I guess the most important things, I'm a father husband, stepfather, um, a son. I think those the most important things, I've been a professional goal for touring the world professionally since I was 19. Um, I played, um, I mean, I, I took up game as a kid and, and in all honesty, I've done very little else in terms of, um, well, I've done nothing else in terms of my career and sort of when I was a, a kid and when I was in school, um, that was always my interests outside of school. Um, I left high school when I was 16, um, and gave myself a couple of years to play full time, rather than going to college or getting a job. And at that point I was doing really, really well at the game and, um, you know, turn, turn pro a year later, I played for the national team, traveled the world, doing that. Speaker 0 00:03:38 Wow. Um, and that's, you know, that's basically been, it really, it's been my, you know, interest, like I say, since a kid, I did all the normal kid things at school, all of that. Um, I contemplated going to drama school when I left high school. Uh, did you just, uh, yeah, that, well, it was, it was the only other thing really that, that interest me. I studied drama at GCSE and did well, and that was like the only, and I mean, you know, it was, I, I didn't studying, wasn't massively. My thing, I wasn't, um, I always did the bare minimum to get me by, I look back and think, I kind of wish I'd done more. I tell my kids to do more. Um, <laugh> but I wasn't the best example of it. And that was the only other thing that kind of interests me. And, um, you know, obviously when you leave school and you decide you're gonna, I didn't put that much pressure on myself, but, um, you know, I kind oft Sue all my eggs in one basket and, and tried the golf thing and it, and it worked out Speaker 2 00:04:37 That's, it's quite a brave thing to do. I mean, were your par, were your parents fully kind of on side with that decision Speaker 0 00:04:42 At the time? Yeah, I they've, they've always been really supportive. Um, like I was, you know, I've been very lucky, uh, to have parents like that, that would, you know, the only thing that they ever asked really was that I give it a hundred percent whatever I was doing. Um, like, you know, try as hard as I can enjoy it. And that was, you know, pretty much all they ever asked of me. So they were completely on board with that. And it is a big commitment for all of you involved, I guess. Um, knowing that the sun is kind of planning on doing one thing and not really giving anything else, a look, but, um, like I said, it worked out and they obviously had a lot of faith in me. Speaker 2 00:05:23 Of course. It's. So what, what was your kind of, I mean, you said that golf was a big part of your life from the get go, but what's your kind of earliest memory of, of golf. What, what's the kind of thing that sticks in your mind? Speaker 0 00:05:35 I think my, my earliest memory for myself, you know, I remember hitting golf shots when I was five or six. Um, I remember, you know, my dad always playing, my older brother played, so I being a little kid, I just wanted to join in more than anything else. And, um, I got hooked pretty quickly. I was pretty good at it. Like I could always hit it and that was the enjoyable thing about it. Like I could hit the ball, so, um, and then, you know, those guys play and I just wanted to, to be around and, and do that. And, and that was it. I never, I think I played, I think I played my first tournament when I was seven and I had no idea. Um, I'd never played with anyone else really. Um, I, I remember that distinctly, I'd never played with anybody else. I didn't know how good I was supposed to be, how good they were. I just wanted to play, um, I shot 131 and finished second to Alaska cuz somebody gave up and didn't and didn't finish. Um, but that, you know, that wasn't the point. I just, it was just a day of like my first event and like that was it really. So I had, um, I think being a kid, I had nobody to sort of compare myself with, I just wanted to play. And, and that was it. Speaker 2 00:06:51 I mean, there's something quite lovely about that in the sense you hear a lot of sports people, you know, when they start, there's a, quite a lot of pressure on them to, to do it, whether that's from parents or whatever. And there's also that kind of idea that if you don't, if you're not really, really, really good from the get go, and it sounds like you work, but I mean that could put someone off very quickly a tournament where you come second to last, you know what I mean? So you obviously persevered because you really enjoyed it is. Speaker 0 00:07:15 Yeah. I, I think it's, I think it's getting harder and harder to be like that as well. Just with everything that comes with, um, social media in this day and age, I just think everything's out in, in the open a bit more. I was probably probably one of the last, you know, set of kids that didn't have that. Like I, yeah, I was just, we could just play and turn up and, and nothing really mattered that much, but yeah, I never, um, I guess, yeah, I was lucky I didn't get deflated or anything by shooting that score. I, I always laugh at it now cuz I, I can easily tell that story to kids and I think it's a helpful one. Like, you know, I've finished second to last shot hundred 31 and you know, they laugh and say, oh, I play terrible when they're shot like 80. So, um, when I can tell that one, it kind of helps. Speaker 2 00:08:02 Absolutely. I mean, you've got your son, Frankie Franklin. Um, so yeah. Does, do you kind of, I've seen videos of, um, you kind of playing with him more kind of guiding him at least. Um, how do you, how do you approach that? Does he have a real interest in it? Is it something that you'd kind of want him to go into? How, how do you, how do you never, he, Speaker 0 00:08:22 Um, he enjoys doing everything and he enjoys hanging out with us and watching us play. So he wants to join in. I, when like I can sort of sense I'm in for a lifetime of him, not really listening to what I have to say about it. Um, I can see that already, even at three and a half, but he, I, yeah, I like his interest and I, I obviously love him wanting to, you know, even at this age I love him just being interested and wanting to play and enjoying a game that has brought me a lot of joy, I guess. Um, I, I know a hundred percent that there's never gonna be any pressure from me for him to do anything that he wants. I'll just guide him in the best way possible. But it is, it's really, really nice. Um, just standing with him and hitting some balls or doing some putting it's, it's a really nice, um, it's a really nice thing to do. Like I just enjoy that so much. Speaker 2 00:09:18 Yeah. I mean, aside from the competition element, I it's, it's a, it's a wonderful bonding thing. I mean, I used to do it with my dad and we were both. Yeah, absolutely applauding <laugh>. Speaker 0 00:09:26 Yeah. <laugh> Speaker 2 00:09:28 Um, so you, you married your wife, Claire in 2017 and she's also your manager do, is it, do you, have you kind of created a circle around you? So all of your kind of social and family life are connected to your professional life and how do you manage that? Um, and you know, how do you keep that work life balance? How it must be tricky? Speaker 0 00:09:47 Yeah. I, I think it, it seems to have, it seems to have really like turned out that way. Um, I don't think it was ever anything planned or anything like that. Um, you know, obviously Claire is a great example. Um, what, you know was my manager and then we fell in love and, and things progressed that way. I'm unbelievably lucky that we have that relationship where we can just separate it so easy. Um, we were just laughing yesterday, cuz she tells me to come into the office when she's got something like something work related to say, so I have to make that work to the office to go and discuss something. Um, and you know, I it's, it's always worked out great. And I think the, the one thing that I, that I have is, so I have the people that I really, really can trust, um, that care about me as a person. Speaker 0 00:10:42 And I always think that's the, the most important thing out of it all, um, that they, you know, was, you know, especially you say Claire, Claire cares about me more than any, um, golf shot, any deal, any, anything like that? She cares more about me than any of that by long, long way. And I think that's so, so important and the same goes for other people around me. I, like I said, it was never planned. And I think I'm also looking the fact that I have people are very good at what they do that I just happen to be very close with that I have a close relationship with. So, um, that all works out. It's, you know, nothing's ever, um, final or anything like that. But I, I do know that I have lasting relationships, um, going through life, um, whether it involves work or not with those people. Speaker 2 00:11:33 I it's an interesting one, I guess, cuz you look at a lot of very, very successful, um, players of individual sports. So whether, you know, it's in tennis or golf and you know, often there are those family connections that they have around them. And I guess that must be a very important thing because as you say, if you're not, if it's not a team that you are on, you need people on your team that really, really care and want you to do well as emotionally, as well as kind of in terms of the sport. Speaker 0 00:12:01 For sure. The trust element is huge and that emotional support on because in I'm I'm kind of, I probably have met a sportsman that doesn't live and breathe what they do, but it, it does, you know, it, it is your life in a way you, you completely live and breathe it and you know, so having that emotional support and the people that just know just what to do because they know you so well, whether it be, you just need somebody to sit next to you and not say anything or whether you need a kick up the ass or whether you need, you know, just somebody to take you and do something completely different and just know that without needing any other information I needed to be nudged, I think is so, so important and such a help. Speaker 2 00:12:47 Absolutely. I mean, it it's been an interesting year for everyone insofar as they've kind of been working in close confines with most of their family, <laugh> maybe not in the same way that you have. Um, how, how has the last year been for you? I mean, you said you've been playing a lot, just not in the UK. How, what talk me through what what's, what's what's been happening. Speaker 0 00:13:07 So the first lockdown, which was a year ago now, um, like you look back at that and nobody knew what was happening at all. Um, but that first lockdown was, I definitely saw it and found it as time that I'd never had, uh, for sure. Um, and time given to us that, you know, I've always been on the road. Um, and we had all of a sudden, you're given two, three months of waking up in the same bed, waking up to Claire every day, spending a full day with your family and figuring out things to do, but all, all together. And it was, it was, it was a beautiful time for us. It, it was, I, you know, do wish it had come at better circumstances, but for us on a personal level, the time given to us was amazing. Um, I think golf was one of the first things to start pretty much. Speaker 0 00:13:57 And, um, it started over here in America and um, you know, eventually I left it a few weeks and then decided to travel and we did the quarantine and everything and, and started playing. And aside from there being no crowds, it, you know, life went on relatively normal from a golfers, from a tour in golfer's perspective in America playing, playing the sport. And um, because of my work, we've sort of dipped in and out of the UK and, you know, in terms of experiencing the lockdowns or what's been going on and we were home over Christmas and everything, which was different. And then, um, we had to travel again, you know, I've been very, very lucky being able to do my job and kind of we've missed out on a, a, you know, a lot, the difficult period in the UK. So, um, yeah, that's, you know, that's been a it's, it's been lucky. It's been lucky for us really. Speaker 2 00:14:59 Yeah. Amazingly, I mean, it's an interesting one kind of looking at the, just the conversation around golf that's happened since the lockdowns and the kind of in a way, the way that the world has slowed down and kind of taken those pleasure moments and moments with family and doing things that aren't kind of, so frenetic, um, as a real, as a real thing, do you think that's gonna benefit golf as a sport? Do you, do you see that there's gonna, do you feel like there's gonna be an up 10 or is that a very abstract connection? Speaker 0 00:15:28 Um, well, I, I would, I would hope it to, I know golf being the outside sport sport. It is and easy to social distance. It has definitely from that perspective, sort of gave the sport a new popularity in a way. And I, I, I genuinely do believe in golf being a, um, having a lot of benefits physically and mentally and, you know, being able to do something with your family. Um, I have lived a sport, so obviously I believe that, but I, I do, you know, I hope that it does bring more people into the sport and people get a lot of benefits, joy out of it because I, I think that that's what it, that's what it can bring. So I, um, I hope so in the future Speaker 2 00:16:10 Mm-hmm, um, and kind of on that point, you're talking about family. I mean, how, and in terms of golf today and back then, like how has it changed as a sport? I mean, this is kind of a big question, I guess, but how has it changed as a sport since you started since your father's generation? Um, what, what have been the shifts, the prime shifts? Speaker 0 00:16:30 I, I think in a similar way to a lot of things, golf and golfers have kept improving through technology through, um, knowledge, um, through, through a lot of things. It is, I mean, it's, it's a more athletic sport than it's ever been. You know, I kind of hate to say it cause I don't, I don't play the game for this reason, but the money that is involved means it is like the, the margins in everything. It becomes a lot more of a competitive sport. I'm not gonna get like too deep into it, but I think a lot of people talk about the pace of play and how slow golf is as a sport. But I, I don't think people are, or people aren't giving enough recognition for. There is so much money on the line these days when you're playing golf. You know, we play for an obscene amount at times, you know, PE it's hard to make a decision in 40 seconds. Speaker 0 00:17:19 Sometimes there probably is more of a separation these days between like, you know, the higher echelons, professional golf and playing at an amateur level club level because of those kind of, you know, those kind of things, but definitely in terms of an athletic sport in terms of technology, um, and in terms of what is up for grabs, there is different than one. I was a kid and you, and for me have gone through the transition of playing a G game that I love just for the enjoyment of it, which I actually still do. I still transition from I'll come home and I'll play with my kids and just enjoy hitting doing anything. Like I could shoot 131 again and love it just as much <laugh>. And then I transition into playing for, from my livelihood and, um, every shot from a Thursday morning at seven 30 until Sunday at 6:00 PM, every shot means the same. And it is, um, you know, it's, it's a lot of like mental and physical energy that it takes up on. You. Speaker 2 00:18:18 Sure. I do. Do you think those changes are good for the sport? I mean, I imagine the, the athleticism one, but like is fantastic, but in terms of the money, has, does that make it, um, is, is it increased pressure? I assume it is. It must be at the level that you are playing. Speaker 0 00:18:34 Um, it, it, I mean, it does increase pressure. Um, the, the other side of it is you can financially set up your family for life at an earlier age, um, which is great. And I think it probably gives golfers now you're not seeing it yet, but I think you might see golfers start retiring at an earlier age. Not saying, you know, it's nothing like a sport like football or anything where 35 is your limit. Um, but I, I definitely, I have a feeling there'll be people that retire at an earlier age these days then keep playing all the way through the lives until they're 60 golf to me is constantly getting better. I think it's, um, you know, and all the technology and everything makes it easier for any level of golfer to play, which can only make it more enjoyable, which, um, I think is a good thing, Speaker 2 00:19:26 But it'd be good to talk a little bit about that technology. Cause obviously there's the tag connected watch, which, um, there there's a gold version and it would be good to kind of hear from you what the most exciting innovations have been and the ones that have kind of helped you most and helped your game. Speaker 0 00:19:41 Yeah. I've spent the last 10, 12 years playing and spending time with people at the highest end of golf. Um, whether it be the best damages, whether it be the best professionals in the world. I have a 12 and a 14 year old that are obsessed with the game that play, you know, every day. And I have a dad who's 65 who plays once, twice a week, who is like your regular golfer. And I see how the watch helps every single, you know, all those versions of the players. I, I, you know, one of the kids will say, um, this, you know, he would like, he would like to know this, or he likes wearing the watch because it's all in this yardage or, oh, look at that, I've hit, you know, my t-shirts here and he likes it for that reason or my dad will like it for, oh, you know, my seven, nine won't carry the water when I always thought it would, or, you know, think like, like there's things like that. Speaker 0 00:20:41 And then I will see it from a perspective where I, you know, recently in January was testing new clubs and go out on the golf course. And the watch helps me do that because it, it can track, you know, how far these clubs are going and everything on the golf course. And, you know, it's, there's few things really that can relate to every level of golfer and help them individually. Um, you know, with, you know, and you don't have to go and have a lesson, you don't have to practice on their range for two hours. You you're getting information straight away and it's helping all those levels. And I think, um, you know, I think it's great for that. And I've experienced it on all those levels. Speaker 2 00:21:25 If there was a gadget that could be invented to help your game, what, what would that gadget be and what would it do? <laugh> was a little curve ball Speaker 0 00:21:34 That, that is a, that is a curve ball without hitting a shot for me. Um, Speaker 2 00:21:38 Yeah. Yeah. Apart from that, Speaker 0 00:21:40 That hit a shot for me. You, I don't know. I, I think, you know, for, for ease of everything, having a gadget that is telling you exactly what you're doing, uh, what you're doing right, or what you're doing wrong, I, I think is the best first is the best version of help of helping anybody, um, for, you know, and again, um, you know, I, I see it in my kids. Like my, my oldest stepson will hit the ball great all day and he'll put terrible, but then he'll finish and he'll go straight to the range because that's just what he wants to do, where, um, having something that's gonna tell him, well, you know, you need to practice put in, because again, they don't listen to me. So <laugh>, you don't know what I say. Um, it kind of gets shot down, but maybe they will like look at something that they've tracked and put in themselves and say, oh, this, you know, this is what I need to do. And actually being able to improve by not doing anything different by just having something right in front of you and having a little bit more knowledge, I think is, you know, I, I do think that's the best kind of gadget because I still believe in, um, figuring things out yourself as well and trying to get better yourself. So I think that's really good. Speaker 2 00:22:52 That's interesting. Yeah. I can see that. I mean, I guess it it'll be good to talk a little bit about the human side as well of the city of golf. Um, you know, traditionally it's been a very specific demographic that have engaged with golf and I'm, I imagine that's changed. Has it changed? Like, has it changed in terms of gender and class and race? And Speaker 0 00:23:12 I think it's, I think it's changing and growing all the time. Um, and I think that's so important, uh, for the game. I mean, my, you know, I love seeing kids on a range and enjoying the game and, and the, you know, the, the truth is for me, if it was, if we still had to wear a jacket and tie and play golf, I would still be doing the same thing. I would still play golf and I would put a jacket and tie in our play. It doesn't mean I want to do that, or I think it's right, but I would, um, right. But I don't think people would start playing the game if that was the case. And I've, you know, I've said it for a long time that to make the game more accessible, like certain rules have to just be giving some leeway. Speaker 0 00:24:04 And, um, you know, uh, kids is kind of my thing. I always look at that and I always want to see those guys enjoying and starting the game and picking that up because I, I think that is the way to, to grow the game. And I think it's very, very good for them. So, um, you know, I obviously am not, you know, don't look like the typical golfer in a, in a way, um, not for any reason than I just look different. Not that I try to, but I, you know, I think have being able to being able, you know, if you're 12 years old or 14 years old and being able to turn up to a golf club and just, you know, your normal t-shirt and, and shorts and trainers and pick up a golf club and just be able to go out there and, and play a little bit and enjoy it in the way you want to is, is so important for the future of the game. Speaker 2 00:24:55 Absolutely. But you have cultivated your own kind of very unique style, which is appealing in its own way. And it's, and personally, you know, I look, you look at life vinyl, Palm, or whatever, and the glamor of that, and there's a glamor to what you do. Like you'd have a very specific thing. And I think there is something, there is something nice about that. And I mean, I guess that is the same across all sports, isn't it, you know, that if you're interested in that side of things, it's gonna appeal to you, but I guess as long as it doesn't alienate, anyone is the key. Speaker 0 00:25:23 Right. Well, yeah. And I, I think being able to transition as closely as possible to being able to wear something that I would walk around at home if I was, you know, out with Claire shopping or something. So then going out on the golf course and it being doesn't have to be a, doesn't have to be exactly the same look, but something similar. Um, I, you know, I believe in people being comfortable, um, completely, I, you know, completely agree that I think shoes, footwear, um, like I, you know, we spend all day, all day on our feet in shoes and, um, I, again, keep going on about our look, I am, I have a partner like Nike, so, you know, they've just brought out shoe. That's an AMAX golf shoe. Well, I'll stand in an air max all day, like, you know, like that, but that, that kind of thing, um, you know, you go back to shoes and somebody's gotta put a pair of, you know, leather, heavy boots on with spikes in and play them well, like I'm not too keen on that for six hours. Speaker 0 00:26:30 Like I would, I would rather, you know, I'd much rather wear a comf shoe and a trainer. And I, you know, again, if there's a way of playing football or tennis in a pair of shoes and you can play golf equally in them, something like that, I, I just think can only help the game. And, um, if I make a difference in people looking at me and see me in a pair of air max in a, like a crew neck sweater, that's a bit oversized and they'll think, oh, like, you can play golf in that. I'd do that. Well then great. Like, you know, I, I would love that to be the case. And I would love somebody to take it up because they think, oh, you can actually like, just, you know, you don't have to look like, you know, you don't have to wear a cardigan, even though I love cardigans. Like you don't have to wear cardigans to go out and play. Um, something like that. I would love that to make a difference Speaker 2 00:27:21 Sure. Thing. I mean, it would be remiss me not to bring up your hair as style and grooming director of GQ. Um, you have, like, you've got kind of Instagram accounts dedicated to it, but it is interesting because, you know, if you were a footballer or a tennis player, no one would say a thing, but because you are a golfer, I think if you're in that frame of reference, it's, it's such thing. What, what, what are your thoughts on it? I mean, do, do you, do you find it funny? Is it like, is it something you cultivate a little bit like Speaker 0 00:27:48 How well, I do find it funny because yeah. Um, again, like if I walk around in Manchester or London, well, he would ever take a second look at me for having hair that's past my ear. Exactly. Um, like, you know, it is, it's not a big deal, but in golf it is. Um, but like, you know, there's two or three people that have longish hair and, um, you know, like last week I was in Austin and, um, had some friends there and there was, uh, you know, one of the kids had long curly hair and he said, yeah, I grew it because you are, you know, you've got your hair longer. And I knew, and I knew like I could. Um, and again, like, you don't realize such a DED little thing because, um, I have a bit longer hair because my wife prefers me with longer hair as well. Um, you know, it's like just my thing a little bit a kid grew is there and feels like you can play golf on a golf course because of that. And it's you think it's nothing. Um, but in a very traditional sport, it obviously means something, um, of course, but yeah. Uh, having an Instagram account for your hair, <laugh>, it's kind of cool is, is, is neat in a way, Speaker 2 00:29:06 Is that Connell's chain Speaker 0 00:29:07 Getting a direct message from your hairs. Nice. Speaker 2 00:29:10 Yeah, exactly. Um, so growing up, like, who were your idols? Was there anyone that you'd kind of love to challenge to a game now? Speaker 0 00:29:19 Um, the, like the only idol I really, really had, so I, I grew up in the era, like I was six years old when tiger woods won his first masters. Um, I remember walking into the house and my dad saying this guy is gonna be really, really good. Um, but tiger was tiger was never like my hero. He was always the, and I loved watching tiger woods play golf, but he was never my idol. Um, Ernie ELs was my idol. I, I went to a clinic with him when I was eight at like this junior clinic and watched him hit balls. And he had a pitch taker with me, which I still got somewhere. Um, and he, and he always kind of stood out to me. Like I just, you know, I loved his swing and, and his mannerism. And so now he played the game and everything. Speaker 0 00:30:04 So he became my golfing idol and my sporting idol. And as I grew up in term professional, I got the chance to meet him a couple of times. And, um, you hear it all time. People say, never meet your heroes. Well, Ernie else was the opposite of that expression. He was so nice. Um, I've had like two or three amazing moments with him. I've played golf with him. Right. Um, you know, I was sat in 2019 when I was going into the open final round and I had a chance of winning it, which is my ultimate dream. He was having breakfast on the next table and started talking me through, you know, what I should do on the front nine to win the open. And I'm like, well, amazing, coolest thing ever. Like <laugh> yeah. You know, OB yeah, I didn't win. But that, that particular morning I'm like, you know, my heroes telling me I'm gonna win the opener. Speaker 2 00:30:53 That's Speaker 0 00:30:53 Incredible. So that that's, you know, that that's cool. And he was like the only guy I ever had that I tried to emulate really. I, you know, I, you know, that was the only one I was interested in. Speaker 2 00:31:03 Uh, obviously golf is very different to other sports in the sense that it's completely solo and it goes on, you know, a very long period of time and it's kind of endurance in a different way. A kind of, um, how does that change the way you play the game compared to other sports that maybe is a difficult question to answer, but also how does it, um, how do you deal with the pressure? Because that must be like a really slow buildup over a long period of time. Like what, what are, what are your techniques? Speaker 0 00:31:31 I, I think you, you obviously get, you know, you, you get used to that. And I think golf brings a different kind of pressure. You have to, the two things are it's, it's, it's long, like it's four days, um, five hours a day of playing. And whether you have a put of six inches or you're hitting a drive 320 yards, like, they all mean the same. Like you, you know, you don't get, you know, nothing, you know, you don't get a shot back, you don't hit a bad one and it doesn't really mean anything. Um, they all have a massive effect. And the other thing is you have time in between them where you have to think, uh, or you have to try and not to think. So you, you make a mistake. Well, you have 10, 15 minutes to dwell on it before you hit the next one. Speaker 0 00:32:15 And that brings a different challenge than it being a, a very reactive sport. Um, I, you know, I do think, and I, I, I still believe that if you not even sure anybody's done it, but if, if you master or you're very good at the mental side of golf, I think it transcends into everything else, almost more than any other sport because of that timeframe, because of having to, you know, you have to you're on your own and you have too much time to think about things. You have to really like control how you talk to yourself, how you think being able to switch off, being able to stay present, um, because so many things have the chance to come into your mind with that space of time. So I do think that's probably the biggest element mentally of golf that is different to so many other sports. Speaker 2 00:33:03 How do, and how do you, um, I mean, that sounds like mindfulness. How do you kind of, how do you, um, enact that in personally speaking, Speaker 0 00:33:12 I got into meditation a while ago when, um, I was struggling, uh, I was struggling with my game a little bit and, and like I say, this, like anybody, that's a sportsman, your sport goes through your life. Like you, you live and breathe. It that's just the nature of it. People bring work home, whether it be at an office, whether it be, um, wherever you are, like you, you know, you can bring it home easily. And I started meditating, um, back in 2016 when I was sort of trying to get back on track, trying to get my game back on track, just because I was struggling with confidence, really. I was struggling with confidence and I was struggling not to think about results and other things. And that, that really, really helped me. And to this day, it's something that I go in and out of that meditation, but it, it makes a big difference if you can be in the routine of practicing mindfulness or anything like that. Speaker 0 00:33:59 And, um, these days you have a lot of apps as well to help you and stuff like that. So, um, that's great. But I, you know, I, I do think that, you know, plays a, you know, a big part in it. And some people are lucky naturally that they are gifted in a mind that just keeps them very, very present, or they have a forgetfulness that is a gift, um, things like that. Um, but for the majority of people, it always takes work and like, um, like going to the gym, like practicing my golf swing, it, it will always come and go. And one of the great things about today is I think a lot of people talk about it a lot more and you, and you, you know, there's ways of learning about it that are much more accessible than they've ever been. Speaker 2 00:34:43 Yeah. I mean, do you talk about that with, cause you, because you had a tough time in 2016, 2017, right. When you kind of game went a certain direction, I mean, did you, would you talk to other, um, other kind of players about it, other Speaker 0 00:34:56 Golfers I never did. And I think you're constantly competing against people. So it's always a difficult one to open up because you feel like you've gotta go and play against them in, you know, an hour or something. So it's always a difficult one. I think, um, when I, you know, eventually start you when my game came back and I had an amazing 2017 after a really bad 15 and 16 or what, whatever years it was, um, a couple of people would come to me and ask me about certain things and I, you know, would very happily and love talking about it. Um, and I, you know, done a lot of reading about things and, um, you know, I never, I never struggled badly with any kind of like, you know, mental issues or anything. I was just trying to rebuild my confidence trying. And while I was, you know, getting my game back and it was, you know, small things, but that was just what I was doing. Speaker 0 00:35:56 And, um, but I, I do think, you know, talking, talking does help. And again, like we don't live in a, don't really live in a sport where you wanna talk about it, cuz it's a competitive sport. I I've always found like journaling being very, very helpful. Um, that's my way of like talking it, talking it through, I guess. Um, but yeah, like, you know, it's not like we have a team of, you know, 20 other players or 15 players like a football team or a rugby team where we could maybe just say something to each other and talk about it. We, you know, it's very individual sport in a very competitive sport. Speaker 2 00:36:32 Sure. I mean, I think that's a really interesting point, particularly if they're kind of younger listening, uh, sorry, younger listeners listening who are kind of interested in getting into golf, um, because you know, that idea that there can be that, um, conversation and dialogue is probably quite heartening. I mean, what would, what advice would you give to younger people coming into golf now who kind of want to follow in your footsteps? Speaker 0 00:36:56 Um, dev, you know, I would want people to be able to develop like the skill of being able to deal with social media. I think that's like massive. I think that's so important. I think it's one of the biggest things today. Um, having the ability to like put it to the back of your mind or, you know, not worry about what people say. Um, and I would, I would tell people to not, and it's a, it's a funny one because results are what drives everything. Like, you know, that's, that's absolutely how you make your living and all of that. But I would say the ability to just try and make yourself better without worrying about any kind of results and, and enjoying the process of that. Um, I would want people to be great, you know, kids, especially I'd want 'em to be great at those things and go from there Speaker 2 00:37:49 That social media point is quite an interesting one because you would almost assume that actually to, to do your sport, you don't necessarily need to be that active on social. Is it, is it really important, you know, for, for someone doing what you do? Well, Speaker 0 00:38:02 I, I think the, I think what happens now is every, you know, everybody wants to maximize themselves as, um, profession, you know, as much as possible professionally. And whether that be, you know, being great for your sponsors being great as an individual, um, brand, um, you know, social media is very, very important. I think there are a lot of benefits from it. You learn a lot from social media, you wanna be on there because there's a lot of things on there that you can read or, or learn about. Um, you wanna keep up to date with things. So I just think, you know, I, it's not, I don't know whether it is unrealistic, but telling, you know, if you're talk to my kids, telling them to not go on Instagram or something, it seems very unrealistic. So I think rather than like saying you're never gonna go on it. I think, you know, teaching them, it should, to be honest, it should probably be on the school curriculum. Like mm-hmm, <affirmative> social media training or something. Um, it's much more, it's so much, it's such a big thing now and such real life. I think it should be probably something that's out there and something that you get taught in school. So, um, yeah. Telling somebody that they're not gonna go on, it just seems, you know, like it's not gonna happen. Speaker 2 00:39:14 Marcus Rashford had school meals, you can have social media a lot. <laugh> yeah. Speaker 0 00:39:18 Well, there you go. Keeping up with him or be again. Speaker 2 00:39:21 Yeah. Um, so my final question, uh, Zoe we Fleetwood is for a man who's traveled many places. Uh, I, I imagine, I imagine you've played on pretty much all of the courses that you would most like to play on. Are there any that you haven't played on that you'd, you'd really love to, to have a crack at? Speaker 0 00:39:38 Um, there's a few it's, it's funny, really like, you know, there's probably closer to home. I feel like so many people do these tourist touristy trips to like island or Northern island and play certain course in Scotland that I still haven't played, um, that, you know, there's things, there's definitely things I wanna do in the future. Like I, so what I did, I grew up, uh, or I started playing on a local municipal. And for some reason, anytime I like drive past home, wherever I am in the world, I have like an affection to this local municipal. There's probably like, I would love to do a tour of, of them like one day and play like bunch and seeing, seeing people like that. Um, and there's, you know, on the other end, there's a ton of beautiful courses that I haven't played that I would love to play just because, um, I, I like golf, but in general, um, you know, I, I go places and I end up playing somewhere and, you know, think like I'm getting paid to do this. Like I get paid to play St Andrews or Augusta or, um, TPC progress or, you know, all these places that people, you know, dream of doing, like I do it on a, on a regular basis. So, um, yeah, but there's ton. Like I say, like, there's, there's a lot of courses that I would still love to play. Speaker 2 00:40:58 Does it, does it feel, does it still feel like a privilege to do what you do? Speaker 0 00:41:03 Oh, ma yeah. Massively that, you know, you have your days where you, you don't feel that way. Like you feel stressed out and you, you know, you feel like you, you know, that it's, it's not happening for you or you feel like it's more effort than what it should be, but, um, and unbelievably privileged human being. I've gotta say Speaker 2 00:41:23 Fantastic. Tell me Fleetwood on that note. Um, you've been a wonderful guest. Thank you for joining us. Speaker 0 00:41:28 Oh, thank you very much Speaker 2 00:41:29 At the edge. Um, enjoy the rest of your day in beautiful Orlando. Speaker 1 00:41:33 Thanks mate. Speaker 2 00:41:38 Thank you for joining us at the edge. A podcast by tag Hoya. Don't forget to subscribe on Spotify, iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. The edge is also an online magazine. Go to magazine dot tag, hoy.com for more articles, interviews, and photo series that bring together our love of watches and our desire to push ourselves to the edge of our limits. I'm your host te van and BRCA until next time, keep an eye out. This is the edge.

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